Don’t you understand ASIC’s problem? GPU-miners didn’t bother, IF each of us can go to the local store and buy Bitmain, Innosilicon or some else ASIC. While in a real world only few will get ASIC’s and advantage in profits. So,basically, i would not mind ASIC’s if i can get one as easy as GPU.
Don’t you understand ASIC’s problem? GPU-miners didn’t bother, IF each of us can go to the local store and buy Bitmain, Innosilicon or some else ASIC. While in a real world only few will get ASIC’s and advantage in profits. So,basically, i would not mind ASIC’s if i can get one as easy as GPU.
I don’t know where you are from, but last year my friends where lining up and waiting for over a month to get their hands on a decent video card. And they weren’t miners, but gamers.
I’m expecting the same to happen as soon as the new gen cards come out. Regardless of the price of the card and the market cap of crypto.
If you are going to call someone dumb, at least be smart enough to spell it correctly.
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I am an engineer in the microelectronic industry (not a programmer). I decided to share my opinion about ASIC Resistance POW algo:
First, you only need to choose two of the three available word combinations - « ASIC Resistance»; «POW»; «algo»
POW algo — no comments
ASIC Resistance algo — POS
ASIC Resistance POW - manual algorithm change every 6-12 months
Second, there is no concept ASIC Resistance POW algo for microcircuits. Any program code can be implemented in a chip. It is necessary to wait when the ratio of the income from the chip and the cost of R&D, adjustment and production will achieve the necessary balance.
Third, about the unfair game Bitmain - it is simply the protection of investments, which he spent in the chip’s R&D. To struggle with it is useless.(honey against bees). You just need to think about how to finance R&D ASIC chip, the results of which can be used on an equal footing by many chip manufacturers. Example: ARM Limited.
Criticism of my post is welcomed
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Yes, there were GPU shortage in the beggining of 2018, but you always can get any GPU in any town, even if it a bit overpriced. I can’t buy ASIC anytime and anywhere, just from China with 2-3 weeks shipping, poor warranty and giant tax fees from government. So i will say it again - ASIC’s should not be allowed until they get the same distribution as GPU. Otherwise, some get richer or poorer only due their physical location (China firstly).
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Can you look at this video first in this link and then the actual algorithm before providing your opinion about it please?
Yes, there were GPU shortage in the beggining of 2018, but you always can get any GPU in any town, even if it a bit overpriced. I can’t buy ASIC anytime and anywhere, just from China with 2-3 weeks shipping, poor warranty and giant tax fees from government. So i will say it again - ASIC’s should not be allowed until they get the same distribution as GPU. Otherwise, some get richer or poorer only due their physical location (China firstly).
That’s a fair point you are making. Still people are different. If you want a local reseller you have to take into an account, the middleman fee which can vary, but lets say its around 50% - 60% of the base value of the product. And here is where people are different come into play - you might want to buy your product to enjoy the ease of a reseller’s service, while I’d aim to save value by going up the chain and dealing with the seller directly, which would save me 30-40% (I’d still have to pay the customs). And that’s not just for GPU and ASIC-s, but for most products that are build abroad. Hell, even money to crypto follows similar logic as - having to deal with a reseller, a middleman > bank - money, or dealing directly with the other party (crypto).
People are different.
I’m not talking about local resellers. Each GPU manufacturer has its own official dealer in most regions on our planet. Prices from offical GPU-stores and GPU-resellers (like you said middleman fees) vary about 10-15%, on GPUs you have no customs pays,so NO fair distribution = NO to ASIC’s
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If you make a calculator for this algorithm with memory on a single chip, you can theoretically do x100 for this pipeline. He did not say anything about it. And you’ll have to change the algorithm again
I’m not talking about local resellers. Each GPU manufacturer has its own official dealer in most regions on our planet. Prices from offical GPU-stores and GPU-resellers (like you said middleman fees) vary about 10-15%, on GPUs you have no customs pays,so NO fair distribution = NO to ASIC’s
For official GPU stores I’m no expert in this field so I’ll assume you know what you are talking about.
As for resellers, a 10-15% margin seems way low considering they need to hire staff, rent space, pay taxes on profit, etc.
Don’ t know what you are talking about here, but makes absolutely no-sense. The aim of this ProgPow is to maximize GPU transistor usage in addition to memory loading requirements which is the same as ethash which can only be sped up by a factor of x2 with ASIC at reasonable cost. With this POW the factor is reduced to x1.1 - x1.2. And your insistence of program can be made into ASIC is the dumbest statement I have heard from a so called ASIC engineer, I don’t believe you know what you are talking about and can only fool laymen.
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I think a lot more, actually my advantage is that i think without “gpu-blinkers” and don’t follow blind your anti asic agenda.
Your example does anyway can not hold without facts. It’s your opinion that 1 company will control the hash. I say this is not the case. I agree that they could hold a large percentage but not the whole network.
Your example would be true IF they mine only hidden, drive out gpu’s silently and are not selling the hardware to the public and if no competitors are available. None of this is true, so they don’t control the network.
IF you are that concerned about control of the network than ask for an algo or way to allow only 1 GPU or 1 Asic per user to be able to mine, to avoid big gpu mining farms or bitmain to mine. I even would support you for that as this would indeed mean a healthy good decentralized network. But i doubt that this is your real intention, hence why you are perfect fine having mega big gpu farms on the network …
And to answer your personal question toward me. Yes, as a profit organisation i would partner with another company that has technological advantage for sure, even without thinking much about it IF it was important to me to have a successfull product that should be better than competitors.
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You have answered your own question they could if they wanted to; a secure network is one where they could not even if they wanted to, that is why you assume the worst case when planning security.
I’m talking only about fair play, where everyone can buy ASIC’s just as freely as GPUs
And about resellers - Official GPU-store https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=11G-P4-6796-K1 vs. reseller EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 ELITE GAMING WHITE, 11G-P4-6796-K1, 11GB GDDR5X, iCX Technology - 9 Thermal Sensors & RGB LED G/P/M - Newegg.com
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The GPU has a calculator and memory on different chips. For each computation channel, the data is written and read from the shared memory.I mean that the asic chip is supposedly smaller than the channels, but each is equipped with the necessary memory for working directly on the crystal. Procedures for working with memory will not be needed.
but this is not R & D, just speculation
I’m considering writing about this one on a separate thread. I was hoping for someone to pick it up here, and either make a rebuttal or come up with a better idea.
You are trying to put something in my mouth i have not said. I said a high percentage. With high percentage i meant something that could be in the range of 10 or 25% eventually. It’s speculating as nobody has numbers.
But i’am fine with your statement. Just change your Asic agenda to what i suggested and you will have my full 24 hour support. Just declare that you want maximum having 1 gpu or 1 asic per user on the network to garantee it’s full independence and i’am all with you.
But that’s not want you want. I bet you even thought about it as you where not here gpu mining than but stayed with a cpu project.
IF you are such a decentralized secure network strong believer (nothing bad there) why don’t you try indeed to inforce that? As long as you exclude large gpu farms, even mining operations with several rigs vs. the poor guy with 1 gpu, your arguments about decentralization, network security, fairness totally lack.
As said, if you are going for an algo that ensures only 1 cpu, 1 gpu, 1 asic per user, i’am all for it. But wait, let me guess, won’t going to happen right? Many community members made investements buying bigger mining rigs allready? Maybe you yourself have a lot of them?
And i asked it bevor. How is it pure decentralization if you want to enforce a closed market for a given product or exclude competition? Both just fits together.
What they are talking about here is the mapping of POW algorithm processing instructions to hardware such that the optimal implementation is achieved by GPU so that there is no further optimizations possible with ASIC and there would be a one-to-one mapping between GPU hardware implementation to ASIC so cost would then be the deciding factor as performance as been mitigated to x1.1 to x1.2. This would level the playing field as it comes to mining and improve security of the network. I’m not going to go into the details but just to summarize, it exercises the architecture of the GPU’s to maximize GPU sub-unit (SIMD processors etc.) usage; any comparable ASIC would have to have same amount of units so cost would be comparable to that of GPU. As the major vendors (AMD, Nvidia, Intel) have access to the latest ASIC fabrication nodes for their products they could in effect have lower priced higher performing products which are dual usage and readily available worldwide.
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While principally and in theory your argument is absolutly correct and right, in practice it is not the case for the last 5 months.
Since early january i’am trying to get my hands on some more 1080ti’s. I’am living in the EU and someone should think easy go, but no. Until today i’am NOT able to get a single 1080ti, even not as a 3rd card in my personal PC.
To comment the next post you made. I have checked the last 5 months about 100 shops, including ebay offers, where you see that 1080ti’s are available and tried to purchase just to get later an email that non are in stock. Asking them why the hell they are showing up as “available” than i get the answer that they don’t update regulary their side or just offer the option when they are again available to be shipped.
The only option i had was on the black market here where someone eventually bought them off, selling them for 1.250+ Euro, without bill, garantee whatever.
And actually exactly this, as i had planned to setup 12x rigs with 1080ti’s and Vegas FORCED me to switch to Asics. Prior to mid January i had only some gpu rigs and 0 Asics.
I agree that they are slowly coming back after about 6 months of shortage. Mostly because most gpu miners are preparing for the new Nvidia Series. Anybody taking a bet that they won’t be available for longer after being released??? I’am willing to be with absolutly everybody USD 100 that 2 weeks after they are released, latest their won’t be anymore until next batch … Nothing different to purchasing Asics at all.