It depends on the size operation and how much capital the miner has as to whether or not they can pay their electrical bill with existing capital while HODLING. I have bills to pay along with electrical. I think you know I provide for my family with mining, trading and the occasional class here and there teaching telephone technicians.
I personally, HODL approximately 5% of what I mine [After expenses] and trade the profits that remain to increase my holdings over time.
I believe it’s hard for both of us to know for sure on this. Hence, my posts to Zooko to TRY to find out what he has to gain “financially” [If anything] with a dual chain.
However, here’s my concern as a GPU miner. IF we have MORE miners (Both ASIC and GPU) on a dual chain coin with the same market cap of coins, it’s only logical to conclude there will be MORE rigs to share the SAME blocks with the SAME number of coins in each block. There would be a massive decrease in revenue among an increased number of rigs finding shares. NO?
Last one i will answer, early morning here allready and sun coming out, lol.
Your business case is a B2B relationship. I have my doubts that you have such business relationship with zcash. Of course you are free to think you have, but you don’t have.
It’s more like being a free employee/freelancer as a miner. You can work wherever you want and get paid for that work. You even are free to decide your own how much you work. That’s it, you can not compare it with business to business, at least not yet in this stage. A different story if for example genesis mines for Zcash with a contract, this would be business to business, but not our private mining operations.
Actually nobody forced us, nobody asked us, nobody recruited us (i mean all private miners, no matter if asic/gpu). We just saw an opportunity, liked the project or the profit gain as the reward offering our mining operations. That’s it. So we all can fight all day long but at the end the project we mine for decides what, how, with whom, under what rules to go and if we both don’t like it, we are free to try our luck elswhere, again easy as that, the hard it may sound.
If you read carefully the “The State of Cryptocurrency Mining” article you will understand what is troubling zooko.
Like, seriously, he posted that and said that it gave him a whole different perspective. And its neither pro-GPU or pro-ASIC.
I will honestly admit i have no idea which the different options would be, my technical level is not advanced enough to see this all from a programmer point. I eventually could imagine that the reward would be the same at the cost of the max supply reached sooner as an option. At least in theory, but that’s wild guessing and something i don’t like to do.
Seriously, that is a question that should be answered by an expert here to show the different options and outcomes of 2 chains and which possibilities, pros and cons, comes with each double chain option.
How so, I choose now to work when I want, market when I want if I want more business, etc… Ultimately, I decide how, when, where, and for how long I will work. It’s no different here with GPU miners and ZEC.
GPU miners and Developers had a consensus around ASIC Resistance and now ASIC’s (business competitor) is coming along to make claims of how they can be better for ZCash than GPU’s and GPU’s are back to marketing to ZCash why the original plan on which consensus was found is still better.
Honestly, it’s no different. My opinion.
This was addressed long ago in prior posts. I refer you to those posts above involving David Vorick.
I have no problem whatsoever if there was a POSSIBLE way for consensus to be found on a double chain with (ASIC & GPU). The only way possible I see to avoid losing revenue because of an increased number of rigs to split the reward based on the shares they find is by doubling the amount of coins and doubling the number of coins in each block. If we do that, NOW the speculators come in and the price is affected negatively once again. It’s a very complicated issue to try to make it where ASIC and GPU can co-exist without competing with one another. If ASIC competed with ASIC and GPU with GPU, it would be different. I don’t believe even doubling the coin market cap and doubling the number of coins in a block would work if ASIC competed with GPU because the ASIC would still be finding way more shares and earning way more of the rewards. It’s very complicated to try to work a co-existance with the two out. No?
This was addressed long ago in prior posts. I refer you to those posts above involving David Vorick.
That’s why I said carefully. And I will add now - without initial bias. I know it will be difficult at first, since you like your biases, but there is no other way to be objective.
And if you read the article, you will see that the issue with spliting the chain into ASIC friendly and GPU friendly is that at some point ASIC manufacturer will be able to design an algorithm for the GPU side and silent mine on it.
Vladimir, I’m actually patiently sitting here seeing if there is a possible way to come to a consensus, sir. So, please avoid the sarcasm {if that’s what was intended} with the “…since you like your biases” remark.
With that said, I honestly don’t see a possible way for consensus. Cause I too agree that “ASIC manufacturer will be able to design an ASIC to silently mine on the GPU algorithm.”
So, bottom line is to come up with an algorithm, such as PROG PoW to maintain ASIC Resistance.
Here’s what I like about PROG: It more or less brings ASIC’s on equal footing with GPU’s in regards to hash rate and power consumption. Not exactly equal footing but pretty close. Like 1.1 to 1 or 1.2 to 1 in favor of ASIC power consumption and hash rate.
We don’t need to agree on everything or reach a consensus. I am here to find an outcome for this mining thing that would be best for Zcash. Not for you, me, Bitmain, but for the future of the coin.
If you or anyone else is here to rage war between ASIC vs GPU fanboys, then we have two different agendas.
The ProgPOW that you’ve posted a thread about should definitely be explored as a possibility. As well as other options should be found and considered. This serves my agenda.
If that’s the case, let ZCash move to POS and end the entire debate. Then, watch what happens to the coin.
You’ll see only the BIG holders of ZEC [One of which would be BITMAIN] mining the majority of the coins with their stake.
ZCash developers would potentially have a conflict of interest with POS during the first four years because their dev fee would allow them to also use their holdings for POS and also give them an unfair advantage to earn even more coins.
ZCash will have lost a lot of supporters who will have moved on to other privacy coins because the only way they can make any kind of substantial profit on it is through HIGH RISK in a crypto exchange they may or may not have any experience with.
Then ZCash is left with a coin that has lost this thing called, TRUST. Need I elaborate any further on what occurs once TRUST is lost?
Yes sir, we both can agree with this one, Sir.
What’s happening on Slushpool right now is…interesting.
Hash rate went drastically up about 90 minutes ago with no big change in users and workers numbers. (I first thought an other pool went off and people are migrating on Slush for now, but it doesn’t seems to be the case.)
I’m completely new to crypto and mining so, in advance, I’m sorry if this is a normal thing and has no relation to this conversation. I just thought it was interesting to see the hash rate suddenly going up this way without any apparent reasons.
On a side note, for a complete newbie like me, this conversation is fascinating to follow and I’ve learn a lot by reading you all, so thanks for that. 
It’s hidden one of mine to. Even Vladimir01 has one hidden to.
Welcome to the ZCash Forum.
I decided the hidden post was “fair” since they also deleted the individual’s post who was being rude in my opinion. Not beneficial to the thread to have a couple of posts where one is refuting the other as to how one is acting or reacting.
KimG is absolutely correct:
Here’s a look at the hash rate jump Kim was referring to: https://i.imgur.com/HS2Wr9Z.png
Here’s a look to show Slush ZCash Pool started out with 2.217 MH/s and 2,843 workers: https://i.imgur.com/oUW8HDo.png
Here’s a look at the increase (jump) from 2.217 MH/s to 13 MH/s and 2,837 workers. It’s as if the workers were hidden while the hash rate increased big time: https://i.imgur.com/SsbfC6j.png
This is what I mean you don’t understand, if Zcash had a market capitalization of 100’s of billions of dollars ($) would you allow one company to be able to control the hash because only they had the technological advantage? you have to assume the worst case, you always think little.
would you allow one company to be able to control the hash because only they had the technological advantage? you have to assume the worst case, you always think little.
There is plenty of “worst assuming” in this thread already. You don’t have to worry about that 
Most importantly, would you allow two companies? (Nvidia and AMD, although 1 company’s cards are better at 1 algo, while the other is better toward the others)
