You can say that you are right all you want, but it was stated from the beginning multiple times that it will be ASIC resistance. All the users who invested, either in hardware, or bought coins will probably leave the network / sell the coins if they see no support from the top. Crytocurencies are nothing without the support of the people.
If you have yourself admitted that you might not be a good CEO/Leader, why not give that position to someone else that’s actually qualified. You will still own the “I made dis” badge, but someone else will actually run things. It’s just an idea and by no means meant as an insult to you, @zooko , because you said that you might not be a good leader yourself.
I know I’m just a little guy with a small-ish investment in the coin, but I did also attract some other piers to this world because of what you stated at the beginning.
If asic resistance benefits the Zcash mission more than is harmful to it, then yes
If not, no
So we watch ones that have already taken those steps and gather evidence so a more informed decision can be made
Cut it out with the comparisons to slavery. Slavery was the racist subjugation of many millions of people over hundreds of years, with continuing economic and social consequences. Nothing in cryptocurrency is remotely analogous to it.
Zcash forking for asic resistance us unbecoming.
Forking to replenish the Z address pool and the privacy capabilities isnt. Let us not needlessly besmirch ourselves when the same comes with both.
Edit- remember, everything is on the table right now
Slavery does not necessarily involve race, and has been practiced (and continues to be practiced today in Africa ) for as long as there have been cave drawings not just hundreds of years. It is obvious that other users who invoked the term slavery in the context our discussion about ASICs did so metaphorically. Please “cut it out with the” PC thought police tendencies on our forum.
Please consider stepping down as the CEO of the Zcash Company in the event that the Zcash Foundation took a position “incompatible” with yours on such an issue. In fact, the investors in the Zcash Company should consider the fact that your very publicly (and stridently) expressed views are “incompatible” with the community on this very important issue. It is a shame that you seem, like so many others, to have sold out the people of this world who need this type of technology for money. If you use your position to block the immediate work on the development / implementation of a new ASIC resistant POW for Zcash, I hope the foundation will give money to other folks who will do the right thing with that money.
Zooko’s opinion on this subject is not a decision like several people in this thread are thinking it is. The company itself is not taking a position at this time, but most of the developers at the company (including myself) believe we should change the PoW to make it more ASIC resistant. The process for achieving such a change has already begun.
@ProwdClown and others shouldn’t be treating Zooko’s opinions like they’re a personal attack. He’s entitled to his opinions and the community is entitled to change the PoW despite them. Threatening to mine another coin defeats your own argument and makes you come across as financially invested in an outcome that may or may not be good for the project.
Thank you for your work . I and I am sure many others respect zooko’s opinions very much .
he sure must have an opinion and it must be read ,understood and studied .
its just since this thread was created, sure enough every one got the impression that it was not just an opinion , rather a decision.
and those statements from zooko didn’t actually help.
“Monero’s culture is community-oriented and ideological, in contrast to Zcash’s being corporate and scientific”
“I don’t mind opposing the community consensus if I think I’m right and they’re wrong,”
“It is too late to make any changes for Overwinter 1 or Sapling (visual timeline 5, so the earliest we could deploy a Network Upgrade that changes the PoW (or other related changes) would be in the post-Sapling Network Upgrade, which we currently haven’t scheduled.”
with all the honesty, it felt to me that opinions or arguments doesn’t matter at all , whether presented by a person in the community or a dev in the team . it will not have any influence whatsoever on the future of zcash .
it felt just like private corporate that runs the show , and all decisions are centralized in the hand of the top management .
and it did stink to feel that way .
I disagree, If a coin has one miner then it’s up to miner to put which transactions in. In my experience conflict of two ideology can simply destroy everything for one side. What if that miner is living in a jurisdiction which imposes for all transaction to do KYC and then simply kick out certain users.
Then censorship and surveillance are gone.
This talk of censorship is nonsense. All of us agree to their Terms of Service when we sign up to participate on their forum. Here it is:
https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/faq
We agree to a contract to participate and waive certain “rights” (said loosely) to post here. You can’t conduct yourself as you want when you go to someone’s else (implicit agreement), and you can’t say whatever you like here (affirmative agreement by TOS).
So this talk of censorship does nothing to aid the discussion and even works against it since it’s trivial and irrelevant. ZCash is too important to get bogged down in this side junk.
Get on topic folks.
daira, must “respectfully” disagree with your accusation of my referring to slavery and racism. I’m actually FREE to mine whatever coin I like. Therefore, I am not a slave to mine ZEC. Nor is anyone else. I’m STILL mining ZEC while waiting to see what ZCashCo decides to do in regards to ASIC resistance. I have NEVER mined any other Equihash coin with my NVIDIA’s. NEVER…
I have no idea how you get “slavery” and “racist” out of ANY of my comments. I’m simply pointing out how Zooko is coming across to the mining community who have invested and shown support to ZEC based on his white paper. I said he’s coming across as a Dictator and Chief. It was quite obvious in his comments. He said himself he basically could care less if he made a decision that made a negative impact against the community and consensus.
I don’t hold back when I share my thoughts. Just as Zooko OBVIOUSLY doesn’t hold back when sharing his. He could care less if he offends us (community) and consensus. So, I could care less if offend him when telling him how he’s coming across to the community. A president/CEO of a company sharing their opinion is one thing; but when they say they could care less if they make a decision that offends the community and/or consensus, they would normally be removed from leadership. Because that is certainly NOT leading.
The TRUTH hurts. I haven’t cursed him or any other developer. I’m simply informing him of his TERRIBLE decision and how it’s coming across the most of the mining community as if he is Dictator & Chief. I’m exercising my freedom of speech just as he is.
If he chooses to become hardened in his heart and lash out rather than LEAD for the benefit of community and consensus with stock holders, it’s simply revealing he doesn’t know how to lead. If that offends him or you by me being blunt about the truth just as he has been blunt about caring less about offending community and consensus, then so be it. That’s not going to stop me from sharing my opinion.
What’s in BOLD below in a quote is the first reference made to slavery by user, Roonzmeal.
Here is my response to him referring to ASIC’s as “slaves.” By no means did I imply a group or individual was a slave. Much less did I say ANYTHING “racist.” So, Kindly STOP your Politically Correct crap in an effort to TRY to keep someone from speaking the truth.
Good to know, we were starting to get worried that you have.
It is amazing how if anyone has a different opinion outside of yours, and your investment, then according to you it is wrong, you attack them, call them names from some high and mighty moral ground.
This thread has several postings with you doing that , please respect others thoughts, and the opinions of everyone here and without the name calling.
The problem i have with ASIC’s is the distribution approach that is most profitable for the manufacturer (to have the least risk).
I believe mining manufacturers are buying these products for their own at the beginning at least. Second part is they sell the product with an approach to get the most profit, resulting real miners to get the rest of the profit. hence all small miners are out.
One solution would be to change PoW periodically. Which is a temporary solution. And it’s an easy way to fight with ASIC. Protection against double-spend will not be lost. We can advice predictable confirmations needed for each transaction.
The other solution would be to design the most efficient ASIC for simplest algo like blake2b with board design, Then open-source it and let the cost for manufacturing these devices to get very cheap. So more people can get into the business.
This one is unlikely, I don’t think anybody is willing to put their own time and money to help decentralizing ASIC mining. (i mean giving more opportunities for noobs)
First of all, I do respect one providing their “opinion.” When their “opinion” or “view” CLEARLY STATES:
He said he doesn’t mind “…negative publicity.” Well, he’s getting it.
Apparently I’m a “racist” now. Who would have thought? Geeeeeez
Honestly, the “names” are an analogy of HOW someone is acting BY their statements.
Apparently, I my words must be striking a chord in order for you to now through some kind of guilt trip on me as if I’m acting on a “moral high ground.”
Trust me, if you said what Zooko said to your stock holders of any company you would not last long as the leader of that company. Plain and simple. You can try to throw some kind of guilt trip on me all you want. It’s not working.
I these are both European power outages, I know the latter is, bout 60 Mhs-ish for the rest of the world in both cases
So maybe if it happens again and the spike drops to the same level we can have an idea (of asic existence)
Dude, give it a rest.
Ok… for afew weeks I’m more or less active in this forum and time to time I read this discussion right here (some kind of English lesson for a German dude)
. But I have some serious question I didn’t read no answer on.
how can asics bring more security (privacy) to the zcash network?
IF there is the need to integrate asics, why not creating a second chain for them and let it be checked by the gpu-chain.
IF both chains are equal paid (coins/watt) + the asic chain pays the founders reward could anybody be sad?