This proves all the more YOU claim to RUN the show and YOU claim to be DICTATOR & CHEIF and to hell with “everyone” (being GPU and CPU miners) and invite “other audiences” (BITMAIN or VIP’s you speak with in back room deals in Montreal at ZCon0 - Does the name “Alan” ring a bell?). Dictator and chief lacks “higher values” and could care less about “community consensus.”
ZCashCo is sounding more like a pathetic centralized dictatorship. Getting close to saying good riddance and heading over to ZEN Cash to see if the developers there actually have “higher values” and an actual desire to obtain “community consensus.”
Ever wonder why zoom avoids answering simple questions as these? The air I get about him for the most part is: Listen to what I’m saying. To hell with what you say.
As a so called “learning to lead and chief,” he doesn’t have the self control nor the wisdom to make a decision. I’m seeing now I knew very little about ZEC. I had no idea one person could act like a dictator and say the hell with “community;” avoiding consensus. He has no values if there’s no desire for “community” and "consensus. I would like to say several other things but if I did, I would probably be banned from this thread.
Heres a question-
IF a Zcash asic existed, where would it exist in the world? I imagine SE Asia, China which on FP accounts for about 40MhS. But the vast majority of hashing comes from Europe. I couldn’t get an exact number but using zchain and looking on flypool, the total is between 400 and 500 MhS. About 200 comes from just Euro FP servers!. I imagine Europe has Chip Manufacturing (big question) but if you read up on the news, you know that the EU is looking to eliminate all cryptocurrency anonymity (which really sucks for Europe, it doesnt say ban Zcash but KYC across the board so yeah, basically doesnt fit the idiom).
Logically, if their in Europe, theyre going on sale very soon.
If their in any other continent, theyre not very abundant or theyre slow.
What do you guys think?
SiaCoin will never amount to much of anything; at least for the users and those who did (past tense) support it at one time. Now, it’s all about (Me, Me, Me - the developers) who’s head got puffed up by power and greed and said, to hell with community and consensus.
Dictator & Chief (Zooko) could care less. His mind is clouded by all the dollar signs he’s seeing from the VIP’s to meet with him in Montreal at Zcon0 to workout a backroom deal on ASIC made specifically for ZCash.
He cannot get dollar signs out of his mind and HE SEES ONLY DOLLAR SIGNS “NOT” COMMUNITY CONSENSUS. As Dictator & Chief, he says to hell with community consensus. You can bet it’s all about money and NOT “community.”
The slave owners are ASIC manufacturers; most of whom keep all their slaves (ASIC’s) working in their own fields; with little care of selling their slaves (ASIC’s) for work in someone else’s field until that slave (ASIC) is old and replaced by a new younger slave (ASIC).
Your ASIC trolling is getting nowhere in this thread. Just as Zooko’s ASIC trolling is only showing us all he has absolutely no leadership skills and seeks only to be a damn money hungry scientist who’s out to line his own pockets at the expense of community and consensus.
I’m a Marine and I believe you know full well what kind of leader I will follow. Marines are actually taught to question leaders (those in seniority over them) if that leader was to order or act on something contrary to ethics, values and COMJ.
Ah, Visa
Its everything we dont wanna be! Lol, Mastercard, lol
Edit - but seriously, a solution for mining reward distribution is the quandary
The choice is counter asic fork, and thats about it
Or dont fork, and figure that out, and better to figure that before than too late
Edit- thank you for your service, but its a different chain of command structure
SIA was/is pro ASIC mainly because they were developing their OWN ASIC and intended to market it, and probably make a killing on it. Then Big Daddy Bitmain came along and hosed them royally didn’t they when they released their own version first, and it was much faster. It helps when you can tape out an ASIC and bring it to production in a matter of months.
I saw your response about Monero and the hashrate. If you can’t take the time to follow and understand Bitmain’s MO of taping out an ASIC, producing it, Mining with it for MONTHS before they offer their now “used” miners as “new” to the world, and rinse repeat with next gen of faster ASIC, then maybe you should refrain from making comments about it. That’s not a allegation either. Forums are packed with Bitmain customers with stories, pictures, etc of “new” miners from Bitmain that are dirty, have obvious water damage on the boards, etc. They really are bottom feeders…and you want to invite them in like a honored guest.
I’ve said it before, and I will say it again, and again, until you hear it in your sleep and start subconsciously saying it randomly. Nothing good comes from an ASIC in the long run. You let ASIC’s in, and the hash power will centralize around a few key manufacturers, if not “one” manufacturer (Bitmain) who has a horrible track record of dominating and leaning on everyone involved in a project. They are a parasite, and so is every company in their line of work. It’s just good business to squeeze every possible cent they can out of you.
If you cannot see the threat, or remain unconvinced after watching this happen to Bitcoin, Dash, and Litecoin then you need to step outside your echo chamber for awhile and mix with the actual miners again. There is nothing about ASIC’s that is compatible with the stated mission and purpose of Zcash. Wasn’t this supposed to be a coin that “anyone” could mine without buying expensive specialized equipment??? Was/is everything about Zcash a BS job?
Well said… I’ve been saying this all along as well. I’ve seen COUNTLESS photos on bitcoin talk from people who received multiple ASIC’s that were “supposedly” new but turned out to be used hardware. When I ordered 42 x Bitmain S7’s back in October 2016, at least half of them had burned PCI connectors and dust on them. 7 of the 42 had at least one board DOA and some two boards DOA. It took a month to get them replaced (lost revenue).
The point is, Monero was a PRIME example of how they keep secret hardware they are using to mine with. They do the same with OLD hardware they sell as new while replacing them with new hardware that’s about to make the old hardware they are selling obsolete. They simply setup the new hardware in place of the old but do not dare turn all of them on. They turn on only enough to replace the hash rate they had with the old hardware.
THEN, once at least half of the old hardware is sold, they begin slowly turning on new hardware. Once at least 80% of their old hardware is sold, they turn on ALL of their new hardware. The kicker is, they would turn ALL of the new hardware on just when the price of bitcoin is pumped up good so they have no problem selling the remaining old hardware.
This was quite obvious when looking back at past hash rates and the release dates of different rigs they sold as new, when it fact they were not new. I know this full well because I’ve been in the mining game since the days of the BITMAIN S1. I owned S1’s, S3’s, S4’s, S5’s, S7’s and Spondoolies SP-20’s.
All ASIC’s are bad news and Zooko KNOWS THIS WELL. Bottom line is he showed his hand (intent) with new ASIC’s specific to ZCash and is dead set on TRYING to convince the community (Mostly GPU miners I might add) to jump on board is self gratification train at the expense of the community while throwing consensus out the window. No thanks… I’ll pass if that’s the route ZCashCo. wants to take us.
Hi, Zooko!
Let me put my 2 cents into discussion, however, i’m pretty sure my points have been expressed by other community members.
This is too early to be concerned with a network capacity limits. Zcash mass adoption is still years away, it’s a testnet compared to Bitcoin. Zcash needs to stay away from ASIC mining as long as it can. When Ethereum fails \ switch to POS, there will be a huge horde of GPUs eager to support Zcash in its adoption challenge. And then, there are second layer scale solutions, such as lightning for micro-transactions.
Value is not in the tech itself, rather it is a consensus. The truth is that miners constitute a vast majority of Zcash community & consensus for now. Something a leader should care.
Milton Friedman’s “helicopter money” direct & broad distribution is a public good, and a condition of a Zcash success as a currency. Whereas ASIC adoption ineavably leads to Bitmain asset accumulation & control. Taking into account inevitable volatility of any deflation based asset like Bitcoin or Zcash, which causes regular pump & dump cycles, the environment is highly beneficial to a manufacturer, which has a unique advantage, letting it to survive a long depression, ie dramatically lower CAPEX in mining (wether covert or overt), compared to it’s customers.
You’d better have experienced Bitmain & its corrupted sale managers business policies: receiving a preordered equipment two week after official spot price has had triple shrunk compared to what you has actually paid in advance!
I doubt you wanna find yourself at the position, where Jihan will manipulate Zcash, having even more than founders reward at his disposal. POS security is a silly assumption.
Censorship resistant cryprocurrency implies that no government is able to shutdown production of equipment required to support the network.
Switching to multi algo mining would not disincentive Bitmain\Baikal from producing a pretended GPU ASIC for covert mining, because of superior profitability over overt ASIC by a high margin.
There is a high entry barrier for a small business, not for corporate or government sector, to become an ASIC producer: approx. $5-20 mln USD. The biggest part of the cost lays in IP and taping out for each consecutive tech process (16nm, 10nm, 7nm, euv 5nm…). Should Zcash foundation sponsor ASIC development for each following cutting edge tech. process on a given specific foundry & go open source, then an entry point is down to democratic $300k foundry order placement, an investment common for a small business miner facility. This would be costly for Zcash foundation\company, however the only viable anti-Jihan strategy in the long run. But before scalability will actually become a problem for Zcash, I believe it should stick to ASIC resistance.
For all you miners out there I have put my miners where my mouth is and pulled 62K Sols/s off ZCASH !!!
and will remain off until I am satisfied to the outcome of this thread I can not stand all this crap! they said what they said about remaining ASIC resistant and are folding at the first signs of a threat. Why are you still discussing this… move on.
This is a great example of why gpu only mined networks aren’t as strong we would like, miners have less incentive to ensure its continuation because they dont share in its potential failure, they just mine something else.
No this is a vote!
If I do not like a policy I vote them out or change it but in this case I can’t so this is my vote and if the majority of the miners do the same it will change.
It is that simple!
I vote (mine) for the project I have faith in and at this time ZCASH has lost my faith and effort
Its up to the zcash foundation to determine whether it goes to ballot, where a soon-to-be appointed panel will vote. General measures voted on individually must be ratified by a majority vote of these foundation board members. Thats a vote
