Well, this fightings are partly your fault, because we (pro-GPU/pro-ASIC) do not see a clear direction from ZCashCo/ZCashFoundation on topic matter
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I guess that’s a fair point. A lot of people want an immediate decision from the leadership, and that’s not going to happen. Hence frustration. I don’t blame people for being upset by the uncertainty.
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well put. Particularly in an industry where Fear Uncertainty and Doubt are such a strong forces…emotions will run exceptionally high when the source of the FUD for the community comes directly from the organization itself. Even more compounded when related to the existing FUD regarding ASICs people have been concerned about for a long while.
Welcome to the moderator’s circle. Good luck and have fun. 
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Well, this fightings are partly your fault, because we (pro-GPU/pro-ASIC) do not see a clear direction from ZCashCo/ZCashFoundation on topic matter
It is also their fault that they made this forum available to us and for creating Zcash in the first place! If they didn’t do that none of this 2k+ posts would’ve existed to begin with.
Srsly now, the only problem here is the tribal "pro-GPU vs “pro-ASIC” talk. If you frame the conversation in such manner, people will separate in two opposing teams like tribes. And when these groups are put in jeopardy they will fight like tribes.
So, to preserve the integrity of the community, we should leave our personal motives and preferences and focus towards what is best for Zcash’s future. It is clear that people’s interested will be damaged along the way, and some of us stand to loose some value in the short term. And if we focus on the long haul and support Zcash’s team we’ll gain (edited to *might gain :P) a lot more in the future.
I personally support them for not reacting to the ASIC issue without consideration and that they are taking their time to research the pro-s and the cons of the situation. You can call this creating “FUD” I call it moderate caution and careful exploration of possibilities.
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Tribes? Not all of us are against the takeover of the ZEC network by ASICs simply because we have GPUs. In fact most of us have GPU based gear that can be sold for more than we paid for it and purchase ASICs if we wanted to. However many of us oppose the ZEC network being dominated by government influenced corporations running specialized mining equipment because we understand what that ultimately means to the project - an abandonment of the original premise and compromise to the original mission of privacy and censorship resistance.
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It’s important to clarify this is a GPU vs. Bitmain argument and it really isn’t two sided. The majority of the community does not support ASIC involvement and most of the others are more or less indifferent. There is a relatively small group that actively desire ASIC use. None of those people should ever fool themselves to think there isn’t some personal motivation behind any of these positions.
Those most concerned (myself included) is not because they want hasty action…it’s because the organization has effectively said nothing will be done about it for months and even then there has been no comment towards actually opposing or resisting ASIC integration at all. Whereas that is the desire from the majority of the community.
By that point, most of those miners who have supported ZEC since the beginning will no longer be part of the community. Effectively, the damage will be done.
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Tribes?
Like tribes, that is the definition of the tribal talk. If there weren’t any tribal talk, there would not be any personal attacks and the issue would’ve been sorted on forum community level by scientific method and common sense. Some guys, like myself, even attempted to do that and to offer long term possible solutions, but were buried under a mountain of comments that were nothing more than personal preference and unsubstantiated opinions.
Srsly, look the 3 posts that proceed the one I wrote above, one could not ignore how biased each one of them is.
Hate to brake your heart. All mining equipment is made in the same country and under the same government and corporations. China. Can’t blame them for their production skills. They are superior in that beyond belief
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I was looking at it from a “if I wanted to mine secretly and not be noticed”…wouldn’t it be a good idea to spread it around the pools. Would make it very improbable of detection that way. Just a thought really.
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ROFL…so their conference fails to meet expectations and they right away publish something to blame someone/something else. Damn right it’s an opinion piece, one that hold less meaningful content in it than many posts on this thread. Did they ever stop to think maybe their narrative is the wrong one instead of looking for blame somewhere else?
This article has very little actual content and is little more than a vague opinion. Very much par for the course at coindesk lately.
Maybe that would have been a better post for the price speculation thread? Definitely something worth talking about but not sure I should have responded to it here.
Actually not, in theory for sure, but in practice every pool owner would see the hashrate of a given user and how many workers are connected and that way making a conclusion about how big the hashrate of a given connected miner is and identifying them as Asics.
That’s the reason they use always their own hidden private pool.
Actually this part of the article would fit in imo:
“Permissionless” cryptocurrency purists accuse established enterprises of co-opting the technology to produce watered down blockchain models that protect their incumbency. For their part, the enterprises critique the early adopters as naïve idealists whose complex solutions are impractical in the real world."
Plus, now Antminer Z9 mini is open to the public, there is no need for BITMAIN to hide their hashrate among other pools.
Also, Flypool makes about 57.6 ZEC on a daily basis with their 1% fee, and I don’t think that BITMAIN want to be part of that.
[Moderation edit by @daira: deleted combative statement directed at @Absolute39.] An individual is always solely responsible for what they say, to include the decision to respond while emotionally overstimulated to inflammatory comments made by another or perceived torpor on the part of company officials.
To that last point, while I’m personally disappointed that more research and analysis wasn’t done on this topic prior to the announcement of the Z9, I am, ironically at this point, glad that this issue is being considered in a methodical and comprehensive fashion. Ultimately, I think we should be most interested in progress, not simply motion.
Edit: Have things really become so bad that focused, restrained criticism (describing someone’s statement as ‘bunk’), in any form, is deemed ‘combative’? I directed my counter at his argument and refrained from any sort of ad hominem/personal attack, and it’s still censored. I just don’t quite get it.
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Thank you daira
You let me see hope
Vladimir01,
The term “personal attack” is sometimes used to describe honest criticism of a person or a group’s behavior or motives. In my view, criticism is a valid form of open communication in some circumstances. The term “personal attack” is sometimes used by those who’s goal it is to suppress criticism. Efforts to suppress critical commentary have been occurring here on this forum lately on the topic of ASIC mining.
I do not agree with you that “the issue” as you say, would be “sorted out” on “forum community level” by “scientific method and common sense”. Why do I hold this opinion? Because in the communication regarding ASIC mining on the Zcash network, the co founder and CEO of the company who launched and maintains the project Zooko Wilcox has by his own words has stated that he is not of the opinion that ASIC mining is a bad thing, and in fact he has made public statements that it is a good thing. After building a project on the declared premise of privacy, decentralization, and censorship resistance a charitable way to put Zokoo’s behavior is “surprising”. More alarming is Zooko’s apparent attitudes regarding the opinions of the backbone of a decentralized network - the miner. A vast majority of the ZEC miners have expressed support for an emergency fork to deal with the current ASIC problem - similar to what the Monero leadership quickly decided on and executed. That majority opinion was met with a very public dismissive stance from Zooko. This attitude of aloof non concern has been a major disappointment to most of the folks who were there in the trenches from the beginning. I am one of those people who saw the promise of the tech (zksnarks are the best) and has been a medium sized miner from test net days forward regardless of daily profit. I would have never thought that Zooko would be a sell out, but he obviously is.
I see that you, and many of the folks defending the path that the company is taking have brand new accounts on this forum. I find that to be very telling. People who are critical of the company path are being censored and banned. Not a good look for Zcash.
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I disagree when anyone claims the “majority” or “minority” feels a certain way.
I’m a miner, I’m a GPU miner. I feel zooko is putting the needs of zcash in first.
I’ve been lurking on forums for a long time. Me making a new account is to show my support. Are we saying that although I’ve been mining Z since Dec’2017 that my voice shouldn’t count because I only just made a forum account?
Come on people we can be better than that. This world is full of opinions and just because my beliefs differ from yours doesn’t mean I should be given less of a voice or that my voice shouldn’t count.
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I see that you, and many of the folks defending the path that the company is taking have brand new accounts on this forum.
From what I’ve seen both sides of this debate have had new forum users and there hasn’t been a strong correlation to any specific opinion.
People who are critical of the company path are being censored and banned. Not a good look for Zcash.
I just want to remind you that just a few number of users have been silenced and that action was taken due to them repeatedly breaking the Code of Conduct. It had nothing to do with their opinion or what “side” they took.
You can read more about this here: Moderator Discussion - Adherence to the Code of Conduct. If you’re interested in posting your opinion on the moderation please weigh in on that thread.
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edit- originally said Dec’2017, its actually Dec’2016
While i totally agree with you that criticism is a good thing and everybody should be allowed to criticize whatever he things should be criticized and do not agree that this alone makes it a personal attack or is used as such.
It gets a personal attack when you had to the criticizm words like “you are an idiot”, “dumb”, “scum”, “tentacle of scum”, “troll”, “asic nazi”, and so on. You are an inteligent person and i’am pretty sure that you understand very well the difference of a personal attack and offending and just pure good formulated criticism.
I mean what criticism is it when you call the a given opponent with offendings? I think it’s than clearly out of line and no more criticism, discussion, dialog but just a personal attack, no matter if it contains valid points. It’s just not the way how we should communicate with each other, not?
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