Price Speculation

Never needed because of exchange easiness (with a lower % than a wire-transfer from a foreign bank). 15 min and there’s local currency on my debit card.

“I use it as a currency”

this means ZEC could have intrinsic value as a type of currency. equities only have extrinsic value.

i used to feel the same as you, but i’ve done a 180 on this… prolly a little of both our arguments are true.

cool, thanks for sharing this!

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You can buy dollars using zec and with dollars you can buy almost anything.

thinking they start off trading like an equity, but after a period of price discovery mature into currency.

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It’s more a commodity than currency/equity. Imo.

So it’s not being used even if it’s accepted. that’s another thing to look into further in my study.

I had a similar situation with one of my clients, I have a small company that provides ICT contracting services and my client which is also has a company that provides consultation services, we both have crypto assets, we both invest in the blockchain and we both have enough BTC in our wallets to cover invoices values.

So I suggested that we both accept BTC or ZEC as it has lower fees to facilitate invoice payments and have faster transactions across our companies, we both pay thousands of dollars to each other covering several contracts.

After a long discussion we both agreed that this is a bad idea. as we both value our crypto assets that we wouldn’t want to trade them for goods and services. even if it’s the only way to handle larger transactions on daily or even hourly basis.

I’d say this would be a great challenge to crypto as a facilitator of commerce. we agreed on using normal IBAN transactions across our overseas bank accounts. takes longer and harder to manage for recurring payments but hey … my crypto assets are mine … no one will get them … sounds like a problem here :3

Your argument is correct from a futuristic point of view, and I totally agree with you that it will become a currency one day. none of us would be here if we didn’t believe so.

But the question here isn’t if the shift from petro-dollars to crypto will happen, the question is how and when and are we about to witness a shitcoin massacre soon ?!

It was never truly there since a ton of the coins were just propped up (TRON, Ripple, Cardano, Etc.), so although if you equated out the market cap via cost * totally supply it looked to be there, only a smallish percentage of the total was being traded/was liquid, creating the illusion of the 8xx billion market cap.

Edit: that all said, I think Zcash has been fairly healthy, it’s a bunch of the other coins creating the illusion of the insane market cap, and when everything starts to fall, some people panic and sell, which is what is going on currently. (There wasn’t truly an 8xx billion demand for crypto)

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That’s how I cash out from mining. But it’s not how I would conduct my daily trades.

don’t disagree with this. token itself represents a dollar weighted basket of currencies. it gets hazy between this - is the digital representation (token) actually the currency, or just a share in a currency commodity.

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I’m playing the long game, have been invested in Bitcoin since 2013 and more recently in Zcash which I think offer some considerable advantages.

I’ve seen this over and again with Bitcoin over the years with some drops that were significantly larger, over that time I’ve realised that holding long term works best for me (as opposed to trading), it’s certainly less stressful (It’s easy to see the perfect buy and sell opportunities with hindsight!).

These corrections are healthy every so often in my opinion.

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I think some of you have some very misguided understandings of equity or stock. Stock in a company represents a partial ownership of real physical assets and contracts, real and durable cashflows, intellectual property, etc.
That has undeniable and quantifiable INTRINSIC value. The value of the underlying assets that that ownership stake represents.
To say equities only have extrinsic value, or meaning they are only worth anything due to external factors and the market voting maching, is asinine.

equities have no intrinsic value. would love for you to show me otherwise. maybe could argue preferred shares could have some intrinsic value.

ABC Company exists. There are 100 shares outstanding.
I own one share purchased on the open market for one Dolla.
ABC company has 100 Dollas in cash assets.
ABC company makes 100 Dollas per year from operations, and expects to continue making that due to the durability of the market they serve.

My ownership being 1%, means I have roughly 1 Dolla and 1 Dolla per year assuming the company continues to act in its own self interest. That ownership is worth something if I value the Dolla. It’s worth something if the product or service would still make money if the world switched to Dollos. The economic activity and value created by the company is worth something. The economic activity and value creation is the intrinsic value in any business.

What about that has no intrinsic value? what do you think has intrinsic value if not ownership of a portion of a real operating company with assets and cashflow?

Gold has an intrinsic value- its industrial uses and physical properties. The price changes from extrinsic factors, but the intrinsic values are still there.

Could you provide your personal definition of intrinsic and extrinsic value? Maybe that’s where we are diverging.

it only has speculative value. ABC is worth 0 to me. ABC doesn’t even have exrinsic value in this specific case.

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What has value to you.

hookers, and blackjack

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I start a hookers and blackjack company. Would you buy a share in my IPO?

i wouldn’t, and i’m not being a jerk to avoid a trap.