open your eyes, there are allready over 590 coins/projects on POS or hybrid POS, and some are real good POS coins that WORK actually! Here some of the ones everybody should know:
NEO
Waves
Komodo
Lisk
Ark
PivX
Stratis
Cardano moving to POS
Ethereum mostly moving to POS
OmiseGO moving to POS
NavCoin
Nano
Steem
Blocknet
Particl
Nxt
Dash hybrid
Decred hybrid
just to mention some… If these are NOT working projects for you, fine, than we have a total different understanding of good working projects/coins/chains
P.S.: Just because you invested something in a shitcoin on POS doesn’t mean whole POS doesn’t work, actually it means you should make a better choice where to investe all your money!
As a bottom line guy, you will regret not investing in ASICs mining hardware. I procrastinated in 2013-2014 about buying Antminers for bitcoin, that procrastination has legitimately lost me 7 figure (CAD) holdings of Bitcoin.
The market doesnt care about GPU technology anymore than it does about the next block found. I am in a race to become a solo mine for Zcash and the Z9 Mini has made my goal both realistic and affordable.
There isnt a fiber of my being that wouldn’t support efficiency innovation.
Last couple months says different…that people who invested are regretting…Expensive Dash miners became brick ,3800$ Bitmain cryptonight X3 ASIC miners who were just received lost month are now making 5$ a day after electricity and will ROI never ,last month also Bitmain sold B3 BTM miners …price was 3000$ …now they make 3$-electricity and are already close to brick after just one month and will ROI absolutely never.
People who will ROI here are ones who got batch 1 but is very tiny amount off people …batch 2 will for sure not ROI…i can bet in that.
Wrong once again We are talking business here, and the simple formula of (“reward” / “risk”) * “trust”. Investments are part of “risk”. What went to $hit here with the first zooko’s post on the subject of ASICs is “trust”.
True, and not true really. I’ve covered this before. Innosilicon…hey everyone 50K sols for $10K…everyone goes “See competition”. Bitmain looks at this, goes “ok” drops price to $870 yeah…competition.50K/sols for $4875 (includes PSU). Yeah…woooo lol. Competition until they get driven out because there is no way they can compete when Bitmain “wants” something.
No Bias…just simple math. They have the war chest (funds), and they are shrewd in business. There is nothing legally stopping them from driving the price down to drown them out…and that is exactly what they are doing.
Lowering price when a competitor comes into the very same sector of a product is just something normal in business. The problem here is not Bitmain lowering the price it’s Innosilicons bad price politics to come with a very high price product. My guess is that Innosiclion is counting on it’s better efficiency, which makes some sense of course and what you forgot in your price comparision as follow costs like electricity should be considered as well.
Thinking more about it, the high Innosilicon prices always have prevented me from even considering them, maybe a wrong assumption but in such risky business i never felt like taking even more risks with such high prices.
By the way. Baikal reacts way better on such prices as say offered the last 2 month a lot of promotions, from pay 1 get 5 up to pay 1 to get 2 beside the price lowering…
No I didn’t really ignore power, I’m just realistic. Right at this moment the majority of mining power is still GPU…power savings from either is going to be a HUGE boon for the hash, so not important at this very moment. Later squeezing every efficiency will be key…but not this early in the ASIC takeover. Right now, saving up front is king. Get the most hash power for the least amount of money is the front most thought in my opinion, because either way your expenses for power per hash are about to shrink to a tiny fraction of what they were…until you exceed your current cooling solution…then it’s a new game entirely.
Example: intel. When AMD couldnt compete well anymore, intel processor prices increased dramatically (especially on the server/pro side)
It’s not until recently that they have had to actually come out with processors with more core and compete on price more.
Its just funny that you talk competition…there is no competition until that who sell ASIC mine with them and sell all others with 10 times the price they cost them plus they have to wait.
Its like Boeing and Airbus have they own giant air travel company and sell own companies real price like 100 million per plane and all other companies charge 1 billion per plane and other companies have to wait 10 years for plane delivery after they pay it.
Sry to say so, but these numbers are actually wrong.
Just consider Equi 144.5 … it requires to generate 2^25 bitstreams of length 144 bits, so that fit into 5*32 bit integers.
From these numbers 2^25 (num elems) * 5 (integers per elem) * 4 (bytes per integer) = 671.088.640 bytes = 640 Mbytes. And that is only for storing the output of the blake2b algorithm and the rest of the Equihash algo not even started.
So I do not expect one of the fast future miners running 144.5 on GPU will work with much less then 2G.
On the other hand the current miner for Zero (192.7) is also available (although slower) for 4 G GPUs and it was announced that a new mining software will come that will add GTX 1060 3G support.
Overall when discussing new mining opportunities we should before carefully research the actual mem consumption.
Actually i doubt you are right about that one.
From a pure profit point of view i came to the conclusion that it’s these days better to invest directly into a given project by buying coins instead of buying high risk expensive mining hardware.
Competition with different start and finish point for each player I think. Who knows the actual price of these ASICs, Bitmain’s and Innosilcon’s margin and how deep the price can go? You can tell that metal&silcon price as well as R&D per device have no matter for customer and it’s not true at all. As article from Sia developers mentioned, big scale economy works perfect with ASICs. Bitmain has the shortest R&D cycle as well as probably the chepest metal&silcon price. Even other ASIC manufacturers won’t be able to compete with them when Bitmain decides to produce some ASICs for themselves. Maybe they won’t try to resell them after using on their own mining facility but anyone can’t stop ASIC manufacturer from producing them for in-company use only. And as Dash shows they produce much more devices than network can handle with stale ROI for customers but not for them. After ROI of R&D using money from the most expensive batches they become the most cost-efficient miner in the world. Their opponents also get some profit. But their customers NEVER get profit at the end. And this is the main problem with ASICs: if we won’t stop them we will have 2-3 companies from one country controlling 70-90% of hashrate. Completely centralized network with exchange-only coin distribution. It’s even worse than ERC20 after-ICO token. I don’t want such future for Zcash.
Makes more or less all sense what you wrote, but that’s how business works and is in real life.
You never will have a ideological absolute fair competition with manfactures beginning with equal material prices, equal self cost, equal worker cost, equal taxes, equal R&D, equal startup time, equal whatever. This simply never happened and never will happen and this is not a defination of competition what you mention, even i agree it’s exactly as you write it when you compare Asic producers.
However, it’s not much different on the gpu market if you really get deeper in it. On Zcash you have only 1 producer, Nvidia, an absolute pure monopolist on Equihash (so far at least).
While many argument that the difference is that they don’t mine their own, we simply don’t know. I personally don’t believe they mine their own to be honest and fair, but nobody can exclude it as long as their is a theoretical possibilty.
Second point, even if they don’t mine their own they favour large GPU farms with way lower prices, preferred ahead of customer shipping and whatever not. Not really that much different when it comes to competition. And again, you even don’t have a choice of using another gpu manufactor even if you would like to do so.
It’s simply as that, as a hobby or small business miner you as well have to competete against larger farms that get everything much cheaper and on the long run it’s the same like with asics actuallly.
Asics just speed up everything, from faster mining up to faster showing how flawed in generally the whole POW mining process currently is.
Only with a good tweaked POS nobody has to deal anymore with monopolists, unfair competition, unfair conditions, expensive hardware, whatever.
That customers don’t ROI? Okay, then the market will decide right? If I’m looking at new hardware to purchase and I don’t see ROI then why would I buy it.
If I’m selling 100k/Sol box for $100k USD and I have 0 sales then the market decided. Isn’t it the same in this case?
If it’s not going to make people money then no one will buy it so what’s the problem?
The only problem for PoS on Zcash I see is it’s age. Anyone who owns a lot of coins right now will get more and more. As Zcash uses halving reward decrease method, I think the perfect time to move on full PoS will be after the 2nd halving when 75% coins will be already distributed.
If we talk about big GPU rigs today, I don’t think we should worry too much about them: they are already in unfair competition with ordinary PC owners - the need to buy hardware when PC usually has a GPU for gaming or other purpose. The best about PoW is that it gives some advantage to individuals to spread coin as well as information about it’s technology among them. So we have 1 new adopter for price of GPU per year emission and it’s gorgeos.
We are talking business here, and the simple formula of (“reward” / “risk”) * “trust”. Investments are part of “risk”. What went to $hit here with the first zooko’s post on the subject of ASICs is “trust”.