Let’s talk about ASIC mining

If i remember right, yes, they ship, but not from the english shop site …

NO they do not ship to those countries! The miner is not even listed on the chinese site!
ignorant liar… dont tell me they ship to China, I LIVE IN CHINA…

and there was proof that miners were used by bitmain before being shipped … we could see that from the XMR hashrate drop… its not rocket science… but it does require a brain to see the hashrate drop

1 Like
  • None of the mentioned asic producers can make the chips, absolutly none.
  • None of them is selling rebranded bitmain stuff. It’s halong/dragonmint that sales rebranded Innosilicon miners only.
1 Like

I’am not an ignorant liar. I have said IF i remember right. And while you guys know everything 200% i admit room that my information may not be correct. Exactly this does not make me a liar, even less an arrogant one. Arrogant is the man that thinks he is always 100% right whithout having proof, evidience, whatever.

And i never said that asics did not mine on cryptonite bevor the monero fork. All i said it’s NOT only Asics, even less from bitmain as Baikal and Innosilicon are ahead of bitmain on this algo.

You are right though with rocket science, it’s not, enough someone checks facts and opens his eyes, for blind hardcore hardliner haters there is a problem of course admitting whatever. You are free to believe that bitmain, every asic and every asic miner is arrogant, a liar, evil, whatever, that’s up to your discretion. Whatever we discuss here technology advance won’t ask both of us anyway … it’s just going to happen … No rocket science needed as well to realise that this Z9 is a perfect machine.

Whatever you want. I’am ok to be called an “arrogant liar sell out”. My grandma allreayd told me never to get offended by someone that is below my level. Only get offended by people that are smarter than you" she said, sooo true :slight_smile:

Why we didn’t this long time ago?

  • I’m against ASICs (fork)
  • I’m proASICs

0 voters

This debate has gone far past the point of constructive.
Right now it’s YouTube commentary on devs editing their posts, soft attacking Zooko, selling your coins, and grandmas??

Where’s the foundation’s input on this debate? That’s sketchy to me because it’s my understanding they are supposed to represent the community. I don’t really expect to hear much from Zerocoin Electric Coin Company (by the way I REALLY like that name) - does Tim Cook go on message boards and debate products with reddit posters? Probably not.

Can we get some input from the foundation? They just got a new communications manager…

1 Like

It appears @zooko is just a programmer and not a leader or visionary like lets say “steve jobs”, he understands nothing and is kind of stupid that we are even debating this. Why not just use sha256 POW if you are going ASIC? why not use in the first place?..he has no character and I already feel doom for Zcash project no matter if they still fork…the project is going to need a change of leadership to move forward and @zooko can be kept on as a programmer or developer until he moves on to regain market confidence.

1 Like

Good to mention that ASIC manufacturing is very high tech that require huge investment into infrastructure. That is why there are only two GPU chips manufacturers on the whole world AMD and NVidia and very few CPU manufacturers as well.
So I think the one who has the infrastructure is bitmain and others are reselling, rebranding customization and collaborating so no real competition here.
May be similar to the relation between AMD and Sapphire, MSI, XFX, ASUS, Powercolor, etc …

I would imagine most folks who are against ASICs are GPU miners. I wish we could have this discussion without miners being involved. I own a GPU farm, but I know ASICs are inevitable and healthy for the space in the long term.

Why do you believe that WalterMagnum? With a company like Bitmain with it’s control over the likes of Bitcoin. And with Zcash they will have the control over that coin too. A day will come when Bitmain will just hit there switch and shut down all the ASIC they ever made and then where will the people that bought those ASIC’s be, out in the cold!! Zcash will not be decentralized anymore once they start. You did see this?

“90% of the mining power is owned by 16 miners in Bitcoin and 11 miners in Ethereum.”

Why are so many people naive?

4 Likes

Not necessary ASIC would limit Zcash mining to certain geographic locations and distribution of coins would become focused in few hands due to the capital cost involved. The success of Bitcoin early on was that there were no ASIC’s so distribution of coins was widely dispersed after several years…ASIC is going to limit this in the product life of Zcash as it is still early, it will also limit growth potential of coin. If Zcash initially started with Sha256 POW as it appears they where lying about it being ASIC resistant, I can assure you it would not be as successful as it is today. Zcash is not that popular and no amount of technology is going to make it so, just ask BetaMax video tape; it needs a big differentiator from Bitcoin and ASIC resistant can be it, once it loses that it dies a slow gradual death until another coin emerges, that is the aim of Bitmain they are really concerned with consolidating the Bitcoin market.

1 Like

think he’s talking about pools, not miners.

I chose not to be ASIC miner from the beginning because I did not see any real competition in terms of manufacturing ASICs so I expected monopoly misuse and highly unfair distribution which we see in bitcoin. I am not idealistic but having a coin evenly distributed will mean no one can control or manipulate its value.

Also good to note that monopoly will always means misuse. Let me give you some examples on how bitmain are misbehaving.

  1. They made Ant bleed, they injected a functionality in their ASICs to be able to track them and shutdown them whenever they need. They can shutdown most of bitcoin miners with this feature (virus) they injected. It is very astonishing that how people are still willing to buy their ASICs after such a scandal.
    https://www.antbleed.com/

  2. ASIC boost, they made use of a bug in bitcoin mining algorithm to make their miners 20% faster and they highly opposed bitcoin fork to eliminate this bug because it would hurt their miners supremacy.
    AsicBoost Exploit Claims Put Bitmain in Hot Water
    Breaking Down Bitcoin's "AsicBoost Scandal" - Bitcoin Magazine - Bitcoin News, Articles and Expert Insights

  3. Least but not last, they manufacture and run their ASICs secretly and dump them when they are not profitable. (monero is shining example)

So at current situation I do not get the point how ASICs are good for healthy network at all. Moreover they are prohibited on many third world countries plus they are extremely limited commodity for example when S9 was profitable it was out of stock most of the time and it was being reselled for four times of its original price.

So until I see that ASICs are available every where and with good competition I will never step in. Even getting more ASIC means that I will be out of the whole market because I do not trust investing on a coin highly controlled by shady manufacturers like bitmain.

2 Likes

if zcash changes PoW; would be completely okay if PoW was CPU mineable only. might-as-well get rid of ASICs, and GPUs

2 Likes

If coins continue to “fight” ASICs by forking, Bitmain will continue to manufacture ASICs and mine with them privately. If more coins welcome ASIC mining, it will draw potential competitors into the space and weaken Bitmain’s monopoly. All “fighting” ASICs does it strengthen Bitmain’s monopoly.

You don’t understand what a monopoly is, can you beat or even start to compete with Microsoft OS from there current market position? how many years will it take 10 years, 20 years.

1 Like

Indeed…

Given the argument in this forum so far this is a much better option.
CPU only POW would lead to a much greater decentralization than a GPU mineable POW.
Every time there is GPU mining software available there should be a fork.

How about this?

1 Like

GPU mining is much more decentralized than CPU mining because it’s easier for normal people to set up multi-GPU rigs than multi CPU rigs. CPU mining is also far more prone to botnets.

GPU mining really is the best way to secure a network and distribute coins. It would be a shame to see Zcash lose it.

2 Likes

GPUs are ASICs also but general purpose.
How many companies are pioneering in them only two AMD and nVidia. How many years did it take from those companies to pioneer in their field? may be around 20 years.

So how many 10s of years do you think it would take to break a monopoly in ASICs mining?
If you asked my opinion I would expect most of zcash will be already mined until we see a fair competition.